Jo Joyce - breast cancer survivor

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Coming to you from Rockingham IPL radio. [00:00:05] Speaker B: And you're listening to my generation on IPL radio. Coming to you from Rockingham in western Australia. And my generation is proudly sponsored by little Hanoi Vietnamese restaurant. And it is my very great pleasure to introduce to the studio Jo Joyce. [00:00:21] Speaker A: Thank you, Ellen. Thanks for inviting me here today to talk about my book and my campaign can at 40 and generally all things breast cancer. [00:00:30] Speaker B: Fantastic. Now, I have read your book. It's not a word I use a. [00:00:36] Speaker A: Lot. [00:00:39] Speaker B: But the book's called show us your tits and a very fairly provocative title. [00:00:46] Speaker A: Yeah, well, to me it is. And I obviously wanted to get people's attention. [00:00:52] Speaker B: Got everybody's attention. [00:00:53] Speaker A: Yes. And breast cancer is a very much in your face disease. So I thought if I'm going to write a book about it, I might as well sort of fit in with its general Persona and be in your face. [00:01:09] Speaker B: Fair enough. [00:01:10] Speaker A: So I did have to add the little subtitle bearing all and beating breast cancer because as you can imagine, if you Google show us your tits you get other things besides breast cancer stories. [00:01:22] Speaker B: Yeah, look, I've read the book and I. It's pretty, as you say, in your face language is probably not a thing I would use myself. But reading your book and hearing your story, it's probably not sort of out of place because we were discussing earlier that I've had quite a few breast cancer incidents in my family. My father, my sister, my daughter, my sister in law and a very good friend and still know nothing about breast cancer. Very ignorant. And I found the book very helpful in giving me some idea. I still. You can't really appreciate what women go through, but it gives me a better understanding of what they go through. And the language really sort of accentuates it and makes you sort of sit up and take notice. [00:02:27] Speaker A: When I first decided I was going to write the book, I made a pact with myself that I would write it straight from the heart and straight from my scribbled notes in my journal. And there was a lot of anger and there was a lot of aggression back towards cancer. And so they're the words that are in the book. [00:02:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And you're not gonna have the same effect by using sort of nice words? [00:02:56] Speaker A: No, I just felt like I needed to be honest. And they're the words that were going on in my head. They're the words that I was writing down in my journal. So they're the words that ended up in the book. I do call my tumor a very, very insulting sort of word description. But. But it sort of gave me strength and it gave me courage to talk to it like that. So that's where that sort of originated from. [00:03:24] Speaker B: Yep, yep. Now in your book you say that you were diagnosed at age 46. [00:03:32] Speaker A: Yes. [00:03:33] Speaker B: Now, in Western Australia you can get tested from age 40. [00:03:41] Speaker A: Correct. [00:03:41] Speaker B: But you don't get notified for your mammogram tests until you turn 50. [00:03:46] Speaker A: Correct. [00:03:48] Speaker B: What prompted you to go early? [00:03:52] Speaker A: Literally my own proactive nature. I sat down at my computer when I turned 40 and thought, things start happening to people medically in their 40s. What should I be doing as a 40 year old woman in Australia to be proactive with my health? Lots of different screening tests and things that I should be doing. Exercise, food. And one thing that came up was that mammography was free from 40. I had no idea until I proactively googled that because it's not well advertised. So what motivated me to go was my own proactive nature. And it was free. So why not go? It's free and it might save my life. So off I went. [00:04:39] Speaker B: So what percentage of women. Well, I gotta ask you, if you're aware, what percentage of women get their breasts tested between the age of 40 and 50? [00:04:51] Speaker A: It's really low. It's about 15% of Australian women go and get a regular mammogram screening. And there's many reasons for that, I feel the major one is Breastscreen Australia is a Commonwealth government service, but each jurisdiction sort of runs itself to a certain degree. So in Western Australia, we're actually really lucky because BreastScreen WA does advertise from 40. If anyone's looking at their most recent campaign called show up, then it's front and center. At the end of the videos of myself and two other ladies that are in that campaign, they state over 40, question mark, come and get a mammogram. So the message is getting out there. It used to be in fine print and now it's front and center. And before the fine print, it never used to be there at all, basically. Why is that? Because Breastscreen is only funded for women 50 to 74. So then you get funding for that target age range. And so the decade of age earlier, from 40 to 49 and above, 60, 75. If women walk into the clinic and book a mammogram, Breastscreen are not actually funded for that. So they need to find those funds from somewhere else. [00:06:13] Speaker B: So how do they find the funds for. [00:06:15] Speaker A: They reprioritise. That's why each jurisdiction is a little bit different. So WA actually encouraged women to come from 40, so do Queensland, other states and territories around Australia. It's actually really hard and difficult to find that it's free from 40. And I believe that strength just not equitable across the country. It shouldn't depend on which state you live in as to what information you're getting. And 20% of breast cancers are found in women aged 40 to 49. So every five breast cancers, one in five is a woman aged 40 to 49. So the data is there that those women should be invited. [00:06:55] Speaker B: But that 20% is surely of the lesser number of people that are being tested. [00:07:03] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. [00:07:05] Speaker B: So percentage wise it could be sort of much higher if all women were tested. [00:07:10] Speaker A: Absolutely. So the data, as you say, is a bit skewed because all those women are not getting tested. And let's say a 50 year old woman goes for her first mammogram when she turns 50. That breast cancer has probably been growing since her late 40s. Depending on the type. There are 11 different types of breast cancer and each type grows in a different way and with a different speed and with a different aggression. So depending on the type of breast cancer, it could have been growing since her mid-40s or even earlier if it was a slow grade or a low grade breast cancer. So if that woman had have gone to breast screening and that breast cancer found, obviously it would have been at an earlier stage and those statistics for women 40 to 49 would increase. [00:08:00] Speaker B: Now in your case, you caught it at 46. [00:08:05] Speaker A: Yes. [00:08:06] Speaker B: Have you any idea of what your prognosis would have been had you not had a mammogram until you were 50? [00:08:14] Speaker A: I don't really know. All I know is I had no signs or symptoms, I had no family history. So if I had have waited until I was 50, my particular breast cancer was hormone positive, estrogen positive, which is a middle grade type breast cancer, not extremely aggressive and not extremely down the other end of the spectrum. So it was sort of mid range. And I believe I probably wouldn't be here, right. If I had waited until I was 50. Unless. Unless, you know, unless my breast started to give me symptoms. [00:08:53] Speaker B: Right. So that four years waiting for a test could have been life and death for you? [00:08:59] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And it would be for most women, you know. So breast cancer is a very stealthy, sneaky disease. Often it can't be felt, it can't be palpated, depending on where it's situated and of course depending on breast size. So yeah, it can be stage three or unfortunately stage four. Much quicker than women realise. [00:09:29] Speaker B: When you were first diagnosed, did you have any concept of the road that lay ahead? [00:09:37] Speaker A: No, I didn't really know when I was first diagnosed. I'm so lucky that my husband was with me because as soon as we went back the day after the biopsy and got the results, and she said, this is a breast cancer clinic and we often have to tell people they have breast cancer and we have to tell you today that you have breast cancer, my mind just went bang, close the doors. All I could hear was white noise, like a fridge humming. I didn't hear anything after that, so I didn't know what was ahead. And in some ways it's actually good just to be looking at the next step rather than thinking of the big picture. It's one of the pieces of advice I might give to anybody else who's following in my shoes and getting a breast cancer diagnosis is just to think of the next step. But the other thing is that the goalposts kept changing all the time and this is common. So at first I was diagnosed with what they thought was a 2 centimeter tumour in my left breast. Then upon lumpectomy, upon surgery, that 2 centimeter tumour was 3 centimeters and there was two others. So that's now called multifocal breast cancer, where there's more than one site, all still in the left breast. And so from an original lumpectomy, because it was multifocal, it automatically meant mastectomy. So as they find out more information about what exactly you've got and how big it is, things change. And so then it was mastectomy, and because the original 2cm changed to 3cm, that automatically put me into the chemo realm as well. [00:11:25] Speaker B: Right. So the chemo is based on the level of cancer or the size of the cancer? [00:11:33] Speaker A: It's based on many things, yes, the type of cancer, the size of cancer, and also your age. So if you're younger, a lot of younger women with breast cancer actually get the more aggressive types, which is a really sad statistic. So if you're younger and you're fit and healthy, then chemo will probably be described depending on the size of the cancer, literally, because you will be able to get through it because of your age and your health. And it was sold to me as an insurance policy. It was sold to me as do chemo will give you an extra percentage coverage of it returning of reoccurrence. And so I wanted to do everything possible for that not to happen. So I embarked on dose dense chemotherapy. Again, it was given to me because I was young and fit at the time. I was running 10, 15 kilometers, you know, I was really fit and really healthy. I was, you know, doing fun runs and stuff. So I, my oncologist thought I could handle dose stents, which is every two weeks instead of every three weeks, basically getting through chemo, getting through the really hard days afterwards and then coming out of that and feeling somewhat normal to be then hit again with the next dose and. Yeah, but the good thing about that was it was over in four months rather than six months. [00:13:12] Speaker B: Yes. What was the best piece of information you were given at the beginning of the process? [00:13:22] Speaker A: Yeah, so like I said before, not to look too far ahead, just to be thinking of the next step. Just putting all the thought and energy into surgery if that's next, or into chemo, if that's what's happening. My own advice to myself was, let's just do everything that the experts tell me today. I'm very good at following rules. I'm a teacher, so I'm very good at following rules. Someone tells me, this is what you've got to do. Off I go and do it. So I wanted to, to do what the experts were saying because I didn't want to have any regrets. I didn't want to get seven years down the track, have a recurrence and say, oh, I should have done chemo or I should have had that mastectomy. So that's just me. And other women feel differently about, about all of that. But for me it was let's do, do everything. And a fellow breast cancer survivor who, who was into survivorship and out of active treatment, she gave me the best piece of advice, which was to go and get my eyebrows tattooed on, which sounds somewhat vain or whatever, but eyebrows actually define your face quite a lot and without them your face looks very different. So it was one of the best things I did. [00:14:45] Speaker B: Yes. I know someone very close to me who said her eyebrows tattooed. Good move. [00:14:50] Speaker A: Yes, yeah, good move. [00:14:53] Speaker B: Education on breast cancer, is it sort of available to young women? Should we be doing something at sort of high school level, making women or girls more aware of their, I guess, responsibilities over their own body and things that are available to them? [00:15:12] Speaker A: Yeah, well, breast cancer under the age of 40 is quite rare. It's 5 to 7% of cases. That's about 1000 Australians a year and most of them would be women. So it's not something that is taught in high school. But it's never too young to be learning how to do a proper self breast check. It's really important. And they should be done monthly because as said before, breast cancer can be aggressive and can grow very fast. Actually, the youngest person I know diagnosed with breast cancer in Western Australia was 19. So it's not unheard of, but it is extremely rare. But if young girls and young women can get into a routine of checking their breasts, maybe put an alarm on their phone once a month and just be checking, there's lots of good infographics and information on the Internet about how to do a self check. So we need to know what our breasts look like and feel like normally so that we can identify any changes. If we're not aware of what they look like normally or feel like normally, then we won't notice a change perhaps. [00:16:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And the thing is, when women are in their 20s and 30s, it's very difficult to get them to sort of come and sort of have some education on the thing. Whereas when they're at high school they're in a locked in situation. [00:16:46] Speaker A: Yes. And I definitely think self press checks should be taught in high school for sure. [00:16:53] Speaker B: Now you're able to get into treatment pretty quickly after your diagnosis. [00:16:59] Speaker A: Yes. [00:17:00] Speaker B: Women who are not on the private health, are they seen as quickly or, or is there a wait time? [00:17:10] Speaker A: The answer is no, they're not. So I've befriended a lady who lives locally and she's going through breast cancer diagnosis and treatment in the public system at the moment. So I actually called her up this morning and asked her for her times so we can actually see a proper case study here of what's happening right now. So her weight for initial, initial surgery after getting a breast cancer diagnosis was six weeks. To me, that is too long. That's six weeks of turmoil, of anxiety, of the unknown and of having cancer knowing you've got cancer in your body and you've got to wait six weeks for it to be removed. Like, you know, when I was diagnosed, I wasn't even diagnosed. I just got my callback from Breastscreen. I had been for a mammogram at 40, I'd been for one at 42, at 44, all of those were clear and it was the one at 46 where they identified there was a problem. And so when I got a call back from Breastscreen after that mammogram and they said, we need you to come back in for more tests for further assessment. I sort of knew that this was not going to be good because they already had baseline images of my breasts and so they've seen something change. So it was 10 days from getting that call back to me actually getting an appointment into the assessment centre. And in those 10 days I ran a red light and I'm not talking slowly, I meant I just plunged right through a red light. My husband had a car accident. Because it is overwhelmingly on our minds that there's something not right here and what are we going to find out? So this lady had to wait six weeks for her surgery. She didn't get her results straight away. Her results from the surgery, exactly what they'd found, how big what was going on. She didn't get those results for. Till two and a half weeks later and now she's currently waiting for an oncologist appointment and it's one week from her surgery results and she still doesn't have that appointment, or not knowing when that's going to be. [00:19:36] Speaker B: Because the mental stress is probably as traumatic as the physical. [00:19:42] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. It's a very. The unknowns are very emotional and very anxiety building. And I know even women that have gone through the public system and have had their surgery, had their chemo, breast reconstruction is a whole nother sort of playing field. The system classes breast reconstruction as cosmetic surgery. So it's not really. [00:20:08] Speaker B: So even after you've had a mastectomy, it's still regarded as cosmetic? [00:20:12] Speaker A: Correct. So it's not given priority. So I know women who've waited four years for a breast reconstruction after mastectomy. So again, you've got that emotional. Some ladies like flat closure and choose flat closure, do not want a breast reconstruction. So we might be able to presume that their mental state is positive about not having breasts. But then we have women who really want a reconstruction, whether that be implanted implants or whether that be different type of surgery. There's many different options. They're waiting for that and wanting that. And so that time must be really difficult for women who are wanting reconstruction so that their body can resemble something like it used to. [00:21:04] Speaker B: So women who are in this sort of age bracket really need to look at having some sort of medical cover. [00:21:13] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. So for myself, I. After chemo, my breast reconstruction was booked in. So. But, you know, breast cancer has cost me about $20,000 out of pocket. Yeah. So it's, it's, it's not cheap to get breast cancer if you want a. A good breast reconstruction as well. I didn't have implants. I had what they call a D epidemic reconstruction, where they take abdominal tissue and form it into a breast. And yeah, that, that surgery was quite expensive. It's 10 hours on the table, it's, you know, very fine, you know, joining tiny blood vessels and nerves and things. So amazing. It's amazing. It's amazing what's out there, but it is costly. [00:22:06] Speaker B: And does that sort of give you. Having that type of reconstruction, does that sort of give you the feeling of being a sort of a whole woman? [00:22:15] Speaker A: Yeah. So, again, different women feel different things about this. For me, I, you know, physically, I thought my breasts were one of my best physical assets, so to lose one was, you know, a bit difficult. So having the surgery, the main thing for me is I didn't want an implant and other ladies don't feel the same as me, but I didn't want an implant because I didn't want to go back and to have. To have that implant exchanged and to continue having surgery. I would like it just to be over. So I was a candidate for Dieppe. I had enough abdominal tissue, I had enough blood flow through my abdomen. You get that checked beforehand. And yet the recovery, of course, was six to eight weeks, which is a long time. So, of course, that impacted a lot of things in my life. Being able to be a mother, a wife, run the household, go to work. All of those things didn't happen. [00:23:20] Speaker B: Now, we were talking about checking your breasts for lumps, et cetera. Are there any other things a woman can do to sort of give her some peace of mind? Things she should be checking? [00:23:32] Speaker A: So, again, looking for any change whatsoever and knowing you're normal, that's the first place to start. There's a great campaign, a global campaign, called Know youw Lemons. There's a great graphic of. It's actually an egg carton, but lemons in the egg carton, and each lemon has been given a breast symptom, breast cancer symptoms. So I would suggest, ladies, look that Know youw Lemons campaign, look that up. They've also got a great risk check system that you can go through and you can actually get your risk for breast cancer by answering their questionnaire. So my first symptom was unexplained pain. I didn't realise it at the time. I was traveling around Australia in a camper trailer on a thin camping mattress and I always sort of. I'm a side sleeper, always lay on my left side. So I was blaming the camper trailer for this pain that I had in my left breast. It wasn't until, you know, with the benefit of hindsight, that I realized that was actually my first symptom. So if your doc. If you've got unexplained breast pain. And you go to your doctor and they say, well, breast cancer doesn't hurt, so it's. It can't be breast cancer. That is wrong. [00:24:49] Speaker B: Is that right? [00:24:50] Speaker A: It is wrong. And it's not to say that the pain is breast cancer? No, but it could be. So it is definitely one symptom. And because I've run the Can It 40 Do It 45 campaign, I'm up to almost story number 400. So I've read lots of women's stories about their diagnosis and many of them, their first symptom was also painful. Other things are redness of the skin, change in the skin, the feeling of the skin. If the skin thickens or looks sort of like orange peel type skin, if the nipple sinks or is sunken or you get any sort of indentation, there can be nipple discharge and there can also, obviously, the one that we hear about the most is a lump. So they're some of the main symptoms to be looking for. [00:25:43] Speaker B: And this sort of. This information should be available to all women and they need to be made aware of the fact that they should access it. [00:25:54] Speaker A: Absolutely. I could not feel my lump. Even when the doctor put an X on my breast and said, feel there, I couldn't feel it. They could barely feel it themselves and they're a professional breast surgeon, but she could feel it as a professional breast surgeon. Just. I couldn't. So the lump was. The tumor was set so far back in the breast that I couldn't feel it. [00:26:18] Speaker B: Beautiful. [00:26:18] Speaker A: Yeah. So self checks are important, but that you shouldn't stop there. You can also get your GP to check your breasts. And if you're 40 and above, getting that mammogram every two years is essential. Mammograms can pick up a breast cancer the size of a grain of rice, is that right? And mammograms are 70 to 90% accurate. The lower sort of end of that is compromised by breast density. So if a woman has dense breast tissue, then that shines up white on a mammogram like a tumor does. So breasts are usually made up of dense glandular tissue and then you have less dense fatty tissue. And so depending on your rate of density in your tissue of your breasts is how, how accurate a mammogram will be. But yeah, they're 70 to 90% accurate and can pick up a mammogram the size of a grain of rice, because. [00:27:21] Speaker B: I've never had one myself, but I would imagine it's not a pleasant process having a mammogram. [00:27:27] Speaker A: It's not pleasant. Look, no one goes off skipping to their mammogram saying, yippee, I'm off for a mammogram today because it's not pleasant. And there's a level of discomfort, do. [00:27:39] Speaker B: You think that distracts some women from having them? [00:27:42] Speaker A: Absolutely. BreastScreen WA's current promotion is looking at the three main barriers to screening, and one of them is pain or discomfort. Women won't go or don't want to go because it's going to hurt too much. So all I will say to that is, put on your big girl pants and go and get your mammogram. Because if you wait and you are diagnosed with breast cancer at stage three or light sources stage breast cancer, stage four, and you think back and go, I didn't go for that mammogram. Is that going to sit okay with you? Is that going to sit okay with your family that you didn't go? And now we have this result. So it's over in such a short amount of time. It's literally compression on your breast for a matter of seconds. And of course, they need to do both breasts and they do two different angles. So I'm going to say all up. It's like one minute of discomfort of pressure on your breast, but you can get a clear result and have peace of mind for the next two years. You don't even have to go every year. Unless you've got breast cancer in your family, then you need to be going annually. [00:29:07] Speaker B: Are there any statistics which show how many women in the age bracket are not going for breast cancer? [00:29:17] Speaker A: 55% of women in the target age range, which is 50 to 74, 55% of women are regularly going for their breast screening. So there would be an element of women who are going privately for their screening. But in the government system, through BreastScreen, it's 55%, it's very low, and it's free, and it's only every two years. I really can't wrap my head around why women won't go. So one reason is pain. Another reason that BreastScreen WA looking at the moment is the myth that I don't have a family history, so I don't need to worry. I don't need to worry. [00:29:58] Speaker B: I was going to ask you about that notion of hereditary. [00:30:01] Speaker A: So family history or genetic mutation is only 5 to 10% of cases. So if you have a family history, it's obviously a big red flag. But if you don't, it actually means very little. It doesn't exclude you in any way from Getting breast cancer. So we often think, and I wonder if that percentage of 5 to 10% is surprising to the listeners out there, because it was for me when I found that out, because in the media we hear a lot of the. The family history stories. So we get this perception that family history is a big part of it when it's such a small part of it. Most breast cancers are actually fed by female hormones, mainly estrogen and progesterone. So estrogen and progesterone feed about 75% of breast cancers. So your biggest risk factor for breast cancer is actually being female. [00:31:01] Speaker B: Right. [00:31:01] Speaker A: And the next biggest risk factor is age because you have been exposed to more estrogen and progesterone as you age. [00:31:09] Speaker B: Oh. So in that 50 to 75, sort of when you get to 60 or so, there's no sort of guarantee that you're in the clear? [00:31:21] Speaker A: Oh, no. Actually the average age for a woman to be diagnosed with breast cancer in Australia is six, is that right? Yes. So if we compare it to prostate cancer, the average age for a man to be diagnosed with prostate cancer is around 70. So there is a 10 year difference there in the top two, you know, cancers that are male and female, you know, orientated. [00:31:50] Speaker B: Can do 40 do at 45. [00:31:53] Speaker A: Yes. So what made me start this campaign? Because it does take a lot of my time, but I can't stop doing it. I just feel obliged is not the right word. Responsible is not the right word. But I feel like I need to be. [00:32:14] Speaker B: It's like a burden for you. It's like a burden, yes. [00:32:17] Speaker A: It's like a burn. It gets me up and it sits me down in front of my computer and it gets me sitting there every day doing something about this. Because the government is not. The government is not shouting this loud enough that mammograms need to start from 40. So I thought I would shout it. And the campaign has been going now for seven years. And it's a national campaign. It's mainly on Facebook, also on Instagram, basically. So women know that mammograms are free from 40. I still get really surprised when I go out there and I speak to women and they don't know. So it's really important that we share this information. If you're listening to this and you have women in your life that are that age group, please share that mammograms are free from 40 and that they should be going definitely from 45. The data from 40 to 44 with mammography is a little bit gray, but from 45 to 49, there is a definite mortality benefit, so that's why the campaign is named can at 40, but do by 45. So that five year age gap between 45 and 50, when the invitation happens, I just see as a massive black hole that a lot of women are falling into and not getting out of. [00:33:49] Speaker B: Are you aware of the statistics on the number of women in Australia who die from breast cancer each year? [00:33:57] Speaker A: It's not. I can't think of it off the top of my head, Alan. I hadn't written that one down. I know. It's nine women a day get diagnosed. [00:34:09] Speaker B: Nine women a day? [00:34:11] Speaker A: Yes. No, sorry, it's just come to me, Bing. It's nine women a day that die or nine people a day that die. [00:34:18] Speaker B: Right. [00:34:19] Speaker A: And it's around 54 diagnoses a day. [00:34:24] Speaker B: So it's about three and a half thousand women a year. [00:34:28] Speaker A: No, it's 23,000. 23,000 Australians a year get diagnosed with breast cancer. [00:34:36] Speaker B: Oh, no, I'm talking about dying from. [00:34:37] Speaker A: Oh, dying, yes. Yeah. [00:34:39] Speaker B: So obviously, if the more, the more women that we can get early diagnosis, that figure has got to drop down dramatically. [00:34:50] Speaker A: Absolutely. And you know, this just brings me to the whole cost to the taxpayer of treatment like my mastectomy, my chemotherapy, my lumpectomy was all covered. Covered. So if the government were to be more proactive in getting women into breast screening earlier and those breast cancers were caught earlier, those women would possibly be able to just have initial surgery, not have to have a mastectomy, not have to go through chemotherapy. Maybe their radiation would be shorter duration. All of those things are going to save the government money, but also save the woman all of that invasive treatment and all of that impact on her life and the life of her family. [00:35:45] Speaker B: That's right. [00:35:46] Speaker A: Which then is also a cost benefit to the government because if that woman can get back to being the volunteer, the mother, the wife, the worker, then that is contributing more to society. [00:35:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Because during the period of sort of treatment and recovery, obviously the husband's not able to sort of function as he ought to be able to function. [00:36:12] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:36:15] Speaker B: On the question of cost, if every woman in Australia. Well, let's talk about West Australia, because that's. If every woman in Western Australia took the opportunities for the free breast screening over 40, would the current infrastructure be able to cope with the volume of treatments? No screenings. [00:36:41] Speaker A: No, because it's actually at overload now. [00:36:45] Speaker B: Right. So at 55% right there at overload. [00:36:52] Speaker A: Overload's probably not the right word to use. They're probably at capacity. So at the moment, BreastScreenWA if you wanted to book a mammogram, which you can do by ringing 132050 or by going onto BreastScreen WA webpage, you will have to wait till at least December to get your your first initial appointment. And you could be waiting up to mid March, depending on which clinic you want to go to. [00:37:26] Speaker B: Right. [00:37:27] Speaker A: So that's the initial wait. Just for now, if you wanted to book one today, you could be waiting two months to five months. And then if you were to get a call back, currently that wait is 22 days. So for me, back in 2017 it was 10, so it's doubled. And what is the problem? The problem isn't anything actually to do with the breast screen system. It's to do with a worldwide shortage of radiologists. So radiologists are specialized doctors who read imaging. So a radiologist will read the breast images from breast screen. And BreastScreen have a double read system. So it requires two radiologists to give the all clear. Two different sets of eyes have looked over those images. So even if one of those radiologists says, hang on a minute, let's get this woman back for assessment, then, then there's a callback. So that's the holdup. It's a worldwide global shortage of radiologists. I've got a friend who works in a private imaging. She's a mammography supervisor in a private imaging business. And the wait times are similar, are comparable. Okay, so there is a weight, but it's not necessarily the breastscreen system. [00:38:56] Speaker B: Yeah, but we don't want to put women off from getting it done. [00:39:01] Speaker A: No, absolutely. That's why they should book now because they will be waiting for a couple of months probably before they can get in. So it's important to act on it. If I didn't, I found out mammograms were available. So I saved my own life, but so did Breastscreen. Having that system there, definitely I acknowledge Breastscreen saved my life. But I also saved my life because I actually went, yes, I actually showed up. So it's one thing to think about it and go, oh, yes, I'll do that later, I'll put it off. Because another reason why women don't go, they're too busy. And especially probably the women that we're talking about, 40 to 49, they might be looking after elderly parents, children, you know, working, volunteering, running a household. Too busy. Again, I'm going to say to listeners out there, is that going to really hold water if you're diagnosed with breast Cancer. And at stage three or four, are you going to look back and go, I was too busy to save my own life, so that's the way I'd like people to look at it. Because we think cancer happens to other people. [00:40:17] Speaker B: Yes. [00:40:18] Speaker A: Until suddenly we are the other people. I didn't think I'd ever get cancer. [00:40:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:24] Speaker A: All of a sudden I've got a cancer diagnosis out of the blue. Completely knocked me for six. So if you're sitting there thinking, oh, it won't happen to me, I think that's actually dangerous thinking, how about thinking, why wouldn't it happen to me? And there's no reason why it wouldn't. [00:40:40] Speaker B: Absolutely. Now, a little earlier in the conversation, you mentioned you've had 400 women send their stories into you. What are you doing with those stories? [00:40:51] Speaker A: So I'm gathering stories from women who are diagnosed anywhere between the age of 30, 38 and 52. So that's a couple of years either side of that 40 to 49 age group. I'm collecting those stories. I post them once a story a week. It's called Sunday Night is Story Night. That story is posted with a little preamble from me. And the lady who sent her story in has written how she was diagnosed, how it's impacted her life, et cetera, and she sent in photos. And so I post them on the Can It 40, Do It 45 Facebook page and get them hopefully shared out on social media. [00:41:34] Speaker B: Okay, so we can go back and see these stories. [00:41:36] Speaker A: Yes. I was story number one back when I first started it in August 2018, and I'm just about to post. I think it's about story 380, and I've got more in the queue waiting. So I'll definitely hit 400 stories by early next year. [00:41:57] Speaker B: So obviously, the message you can at 40 and do at 45 is getting out there. [00:42:02] Speaker A: It is. It's getting out there. I know this campaign has saved lives, which makes me feel really proud. I had a lady contact me me. She was at the Nan Up Music Festival and I attend there every year and I put up my can it 40, do it 45? Campaign cards in the toilets. I carry them everywhere, and whenever I see anywhere I can put it, I'm putting a card. Public notice boards, ladies toilets. Anyway, she grabbed one of these cards and put it in her handbag and thought, oh, I didn't know mammograms were free from 40. I'm 42, you know, I'll be off to get one of those. It's free and she forgot about it and was cleaning out a handbag and came across my card. And so she booked that mammogram and she was diagnosed with stage two breast cancer. She had no idea. So she contacted me and said, thank you. You know, this campaign saved her life. So I've got a few stories like that, so I know it's. It's doing its job, so. So that's what makes me get up, sit down, get my butt at the computer and keep going with it. [00:43:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I know my daughter's sent her story in to you, so I'll go and see if it's on there somewhere. [00:43:19] Speaker A: Yes, it will be. [00:43:20] Speaker B: But I'll say again, your book is amazing and I would recommend everybody read it. As I said, the language is a bit hard, but get past it. [00:43:33] Speaker A: Yeah. So the language is hard, but I want to. Also want to point out that it's very humorous. [00:43:38] Speaker B: It is. [00:43:41] Speaker A: Humor got me through breast cancer. So did music and so did my friends. So I've sort of got it all in here. I had to laugh at cancer because cancer is absurd. So I found all sorts of ways that I could laugh through it. So although it is in your face and it is raw and very honest, it's also actually quite funny in places. [00:44:07] Speaker B: It's probably designed especially for women, but I think men should read it too, because the man who's sort of got a wife or a girlfriend or whatever that's going through it, his understanding is going to be that much better. [00:44:24] Speaker A: Yes. [00:44:25] Speaker B: Having read this book, I totally agree with you. [00:44:27] Speaker A: And this is just my experience. Everyone that goes through breast cancer gets a different treatment, might have different chemo, a different regime of what happens to them. So it's one experience through breast cancer. But, yes, it does give people a good idea of what women go through. And as a partner, I definitely recommend reading it and finding out more about what your partner's going through through breast cancer. I've actually had quite a few men buy the book for their wives. So find out about the book and buy it for their wife or their partner. So my husband can't actually read it. [00:45:09] Speaker B: Okay. [00:45:10] Speaker A: He can't read it. [00:45:11] Speaker B: Well, it'd be more personal for him. Now, this is my wife that's going through this. [00:45:17] Speaker A: Was very supportive through the whole process of writing it, but he can't read it and neither can my parents. So they go to. They try to. And they have to close it because it is. Yeah. Emotional because it's me for them. But for others, I think it's really informative and I think it's very honest and as I said, it's quite funny, all those things. [00:45:40] Speaker B: So how can people get a copy? [00:45:41] Speaker A: So people can get a copy. It is out there in a few places. Boundless Books in Leederville, New Edition in Fremantle. Crow Books in Vic Park. A few other bookstores have it. Some lovely local. I live in Fremantle. Some lovely local boutiques have, have stocked it and mainly you can get it through my website which is ww.joe joyce j o Joe Joyce J O y c e author.com so it's available on there. You can also read a lot more about my story on there. I've got a couple of blogs on there as well. If you don't want to pay for postage I can deliver it to you because I am on long service leave at the moment and I have lots of capacity. [00:46:32] Speaker B: I was wondering how you came to be in here. [00:46:34] Speaker A: So I'm happy to deliver to your door as well if you, if you order it online. [00:46:39] Speaker B: Yep. And the thing about it is it is a very well produced book. It's, it's, it's a hardcover. Very robust. The printing and everything else is first class. [00:46:54] Speaker A: Again, Alan, I thought if I'm going to do this book, I'm going to do it right. So I did invest a lot of money in getting a thousand copies, perhaps printed. It is hardcover, as you say. It's glossy pages, color photography throughout. And that is how I wanted it to be. I was really happy with the production when it, when it first got into my hands. And it's, it's was costly. I could have done it a lot cheaper. [00:47:22] Speaker B: You could have. [00:47:23] Speaker A: I have sold enough copies to pay myself back for the project. So now every dollar goes to Breast Cancer Care wa. They are an amazing West Australian charity that do not get any government funding and they are uniquely West Australian. And all of the money from this book goes to them. They deal with breast cancer survivors and their families directly. So the money will be going to those breast cancer survivors and people going through active treatment. They provide practical support, financial support and emotional support. Without Breast Cancer Care wa, I would not have feared nearly as well through breast cancer as well. So I just wanted to give back to an organization that helped me navigate my way through breast cancer. To me, they were my compass and I had a wonderful breast care nurse who had more information and help to give me through chemotherapy than my own oncologist. [00:48:36] Speaker B: Now, I was going to say you didn't have a very pleasant experience with your oncologist. [00:48:42] Speaker A: No, no. I don't doubt that. My oncologist was fabulous in terms of, of medical knowledge and oncology knowledge and giving me the right treatment. But she was not very. [00:48:57] Speaker B: Didn't have a bedside manner. [00:48:58] Speaker A: No, no bedside manner, but she wasn't very interested in the symptoms and side effects that I was experiencing through chemo. But my breast care nurse, she had like a plethora of like, we're going to try this and do this and we're going to do that. And so again, if I didn't have Joan from Breast Cancer carewa, it would have been a lot trickier and a lot more difficult. I also went for counseling there. I feel like I was mentally quite capable through breast cancer. I don't feel like I was struggling with that. So I went proactively. Again, I'm a bit of a proactive person. I just thought, I'm going to go to counselling just in case. Let's go talk about this. I'm feeling okay, but I might as well go and talk about it with somebody. The best thing I got out of Breast Cancer Care WA was the support group. So I am still in contact with those ladies who went through breast cancer the same time as me. We'll be forever friends because we went through something traumatic at similar times in similar ways. So it was great to be able to just rant and release and ask questions and have other women around you that understood and could nod along with you going, yes, that's happening to me too. So you feel like you're alone. [00:50:34] Speaker B: So these were done online, were they? [00:50:37] Speaker A: No, no, it was in person. Counseling groups. Yeah. So once a month at Breast Cancer Care WA and they're run by one of their counsellors there. [00:50:45] Speaker B: Fantastic. [00:50:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Yep. [00:50:48] Speaker B: Just as a incidental question. [00:50:51] Speaker A: Yep. [00:50:52] Speaker B: The COVID for your book, who came up with that idea? [00:50:56] Speaker A: Actually, this book started out as being written by co authors. [00:51:01] Speaker B: Right. [00:51:01] Speaker A: At a friend, Ali, who was diagnosed with breast cancer cancer 10 months before me. We were actually teaching in the same classroom, if you can believe that. So she found the graphic and got permission from the artist to use it on the book. [00:51:18] Speaker B: Very effective. [00:51:19] Speaker A: Yes. Because we're both primary school teachers so we have two very sharp pointy pink pencils on the COVID So it sort of covered our primary school allegiance as well as the breast cancer. So yeah. So I owe that to finding that. Yep. [00:51:41] Speaker B: Very good. If people want to get in touch with you and sort of ask your questions, is there a way of they can do that? [00:51:49] Speaker A: You can find me on Facebook pretty easy enough. My account is not secured so. Or you can message me at. Can at 40. Do it 45. I'm the person that runs that campaign so you can message me there. [00:52:03] Speaker B: Right. Very good. [00:52:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:06] Speaker B: Well, I gotta say I, as I say, I enjoyed. Well, enjoy is a funny word that I enjoy but I was, I was educated by your book and I'd very easily recommend it to anyone. [00:52:23] Speaker A: Great. [00:52:24] Speaker B: Appreciate you coming in. It's been an great to listen to you share and the service that you're doing for women is amazing and we need to thank you for that. [00:52:38] Speaker A: Well, in the end, Alan, I can't have women age 40 to 49 be diagnosed with late stage breast cancer and not know they could have had a mammogram. That doesn't sit right for me. [00:52:50] Speaker B: Very good. Thank you very much. [00:52:53] Speaker A: Thank you very much. [00:52:54] Speaker B: And we'll be music from Rockingham IPL Radio.