Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: Can you hear me now, Matt?
[00:00:02] Speaker B: I can.
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Oh, brilliant. Brilliant.
I'd hate to have another situation like we had last time where you could hear. You couldn't hear me, and I can hear you loud.
[00:00:13] Speaker B: Yeah, it was all a bit tricky.
[00:00:15] Speaker A: It was.
Well, we're glad to have you on board.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Yeah. No, are we online right now? As we speak?
[00:00:23] Speaker A: Well, we're on that. We're recording.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: Ah, very good.
[00:00:27] Speaker A: Well, we're live on the radio.
[00:00:30] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:00:31] Speaker A: Not live on video.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: Ah, very good.
[00:00:33] Speaker A: Which we will be later.
[00:00:36] Speaker B: Oh, very good.
[00:00:37] Speaker A: So you've had a staff meeting this morning.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Tuesday is usually the day for connecting with the team and working out what's going on and what we need to do. So, yeah, all is well and. Yep, just stepped out of that and thought time to share with Alan and the. And the listeners.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: Good on you, boy. I appreciate it.
Appreciate it. Actually, I did. I was expecting you at 01:00 and.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Sorry about that.
[00:01:06] Speaker A: That's fine. That's fine. I did play a special record for you with the advent of the new series. You've got.
[00:01:16] Speaker B: Very good. The storms.
[00:01:20] Speaker A: Part, the Waters was the song.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: Ah, very good. You got me last time when you said that and I didn't pick on your hints there.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: That's all right. That's all right.
Now, you've got a word for us today, Ed?
[00:01:34] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I definitely do. I don't think many people are aware, but Alan and I have known each other for quite some time, probably getting on to potentially plus 20 years, I'd say.
What do you think, Al? What do you think the figure is?
[00:01:50] Speaker A: Yeah, I can. I can remember the first time I spoke to you.
You were at Riverview doing the board, and I came, we had a men's meeting and they played the video of Team Hoyt.
[00:02:15] Speaker B: Oh, yes, yes. The father and son triathlon team.
[00:02:19] Speaker A: And I came and asked you how I could get a copy of it and I think that was that helpful?
That was our first meeting, I think.
[00:02:30] Speaker B: Yeah, that's pushing 20 plus years, for sure.
Brilliant, I thought I turned 50 this last month. And I think part of the journey of getting older is you start to probably learn a few things that you wish you'd learnt a bit younger. And one of those things is in the topic of forgiveness.
The quote that's always haunted me, relating to forgiveness is the quote that says this. To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you.
Lewis Smeds is the guy who wrote that. The idea of forgiveness, I think, and the idea of a prisoner I think, captures the sentiment of when we hold on to bitterness, when we hold on to unforgiveness, when we hold on to resentment towards a person, a situation, we are literally enslaved to that offence.
That offense hasn't just hurt us, it's now enslaving us. And I. The difficulty is that we believe, as the people who have been hurt or injured, we believe that by holding onto this, we are in some way getting back at the person who's offended against us or some way making something as wrong. Right.
But this is where this thing is kind of the double edged sword, in a way. It's actually injuring us. And so the process of forgiving quickly is, I think, a journey for all of us, actually, to learn to be people that can forgive quickly. And then you might say, well, forgive quickly, Adam. Well, I would if they would apologize, you know, if they would meet me in the middle, so to speak. And I think the challenge is that when we live like that, we are thinking about forgiveness in a way that we think forgiveness is about justice. But forgiveness is not about justice. Forgiveness is about freedom. Freedom for your own soul, freedom for your own emotional journey, freedom for their own, your own. How do you feel? Do you feel peace, or do you feel that sense of tension in your body?
So when we consider the idea of justice, so there's a need for justice to be revealed. But how do we achieve that? It's a very good question. And I think part of the christian faith is the christian answer to that is, we are the ones who need to get out of the judgment seat, and we need to allow God to sit in the judgment seat because he's the only just judge. He's the only one who's perfect. He's the only one who can really judge a situation correctly. And so forgiveness literally means getting out of the. Out of the judgment seat and letting God sit there. And in that process, you find freedom. Because you and I were never designed to sit in the judgment seat. It actually erodes our souls in a way that can be quite subtle, actually.
So when we consider forgiveness and we've been hurt, I think the obstacles around that space is that a misunderstanding of what forgiveness is, because forgiveness doesn't mean that the offense that you've experienced doesn't hurt.
It hurts. Forgiveness doesn't mean forgetting, forgetting about it. Forgiveness doesn't mean that the action against you somehow doesn't matter, and we're just sweeping it under the carpet or it's not serious.
I want to let you know that the offense that you've experienced is very serious, in fact, so serious, in fact, that God sent his one and only son to the cross to die for your sins, to die for that specific sin. That's how serious this is. And I think part of, again, that getting out of the judgment seat is realizing that Jesus is the one who has forgiven us so wholly, so completely, so perfectly that we should be empowered when we experience that forgiveness, to forgive others.
But again, it doesn't mean those things. Forgiveness is not about saying, this is a small matter. No, this is a serious matter. But I'm not the one who's going to make this thing right. Actually, God is going to. And I hand over that dynamic into his hands, safe hands. The Bible has a story of the parable, actually, of the servante who owes his master. It's called this parable of the ungrateful servant. And the servant owes the master. I'm not sure what the figure is, but let's just call it a million dollars today. And he owes the master a million dollars. And the master forgives him that debt owed. So he now owes not a million dollars, he owes nothing. He's free. Free from that debt. The following day, after experiencing this newfound forgiveness of debt, one of his friends owes him $20.
And this man, in his pursuit of the $20, finds out that this man can't pay the $20 and goes ahead and beats up the man who owes him $20. And so when the master, who's just forgiven him a million dollars, actually hears about this, he completely reprimands this man. Because you've been forgiven a million dollars and you can't forgive someone else $20.
This is the perspective, I think, that's helpful within the posture of the christian faith that Jesus has forgiven us so perfectly that we should feel a sense of empowerment. It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. It doesn't mean it should be forgotten, these offenses, but it does mean that we can let go of these moments. And so as you're listening to this, wherever you're situated, or whatever hurt you might have experienced, I want to let you know I'm not belittling those things today. They're serious. But I am certainly placing before you that you do have an option to walk the path of forgiveness that may start with a prayer to God that looks something like God, please forgive me for the bitterness and resentment that I'm holding on to against this person.
It may mean going to that person and posturing yourself humbly and saying to that person, please forgive me for the bitterness and resentment that I've held towards you in relationship, that ship to that situation that's happened. And so as you're listening to this, I hope that this has encouraged you. If you are in that place, if you're free and you're not holding on to any bitterness, then well done. That's very good. But maybe if you know someone who is struggling with that, you can encourage them to take that journey of forgiveness. I hope that's been helpful. And thanks so much for listening to me today. Yeah. God blessed.
[00:09:41] Speaker A: Actually, there's a very good story by Corrie ten boom on that very subject of forgiveness.
Now, you might remember Corrie ten Beam was in Ravensbrook concentration camp.
Lost to her father and sister, I think her mother as well. And when she was speaking, sort of years after this, a guy came up to her and held out his hand.
And she recognized him as a guard from the concentration camp.
She said she just didn't feel that she could shake his hand, but she knew she must. And she says as she took his hand, that that whole burden of unforgiveness sort of just fell away and she was free. And, wow, so powerful.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: Certainly not for the faint hearted. That story is probably the ultimate story of how can you forgive something like that? And I think the antidote of that thought is to recognize that, like I said, if you've experienced the forgiveness of God, there's an empowerment to do so. But the reality is, when we do forgive, it's actually God's power. He got himself inside of us, helping us to take that journey of forgiveness, which can only be described as the divine. Yeah. Beautiful.
[00:11:18] Speaker A: Beautiful.
Well, thanks, Ed.
[00:11:21] Speaker B: Yeah, pleasure.
[00:11:22] Speaker A: Always great to hear from you. You always got a great word. And, yeah, I'm sure that that is going to help somebody out there. Because unforgiveness is something which I think everybody deals with at some stage of their life.
I don't think you can go through life without experiencing that situation. So thanks once again, Ed.
[00:11:46] Speaker B: Pleasure.
[00:11:47] Speaker A: Alan, we'll catch you again.
[00:11:49] Speaker B: We'll do.
[00:11:50] Speaker A: Bye for now.
[00:11:50] Speaker B: See you, mate. I.
